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Major League Baseball Jams
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Kochman
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 8:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Should it stay on the list of MLBJs?
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Zephyr
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kochman wrote:
Should it stay on the list of MLBJs?

It (I assume we are talking about 3/23/72) is not on the list now and I don't think it should be added.

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Duderino



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's doubtful anything prior to 1973 can be listed as a MLBJ, since it is based on Paul Kantner's "Your Mind Has Left Your Body" written for Baron Von Tollbooth and The Chrome Nun, which was released in May 1973. Not sure when they went into the studio for that, but it is doubtful it was during early 72...

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Kochman
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Duderino wrote:
It's doubtful anything prior to 1973 can be listed as a MLBJ, since it is based on Paul Kantner's "Your Mind Has Left Your Body" written for Baron Von Tollbooth and The Chrome Nun, which was released in May 1973. Not sure when they went into the studio for that, but it is doubtful it was during early 72...

I think it can be heard in the PERRO sessions, but not sure when that was.
The basic music for it could easily have been as early as Spring 72... why not?
JA was breaking up, so it took Kantner time to get his own thing going.
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nickJ



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does anyone have a collection of old Dupree's Diamond News? There was an interview with Phil around the time Dozin' at the Knick was released, and the interviewer asks him about the MLB jam. I can't remember the exact wording of Phil's response, but he stresses that it wasn't anything that was worked out in advance and says that it's basically just a little descending chromatic 4-chord progression. I remember that he seemed kind of incredulous that fans would get that worked up about it. I think it was definitely something they messed around with in rehearsals, but I'm not convinced that they consciously borrowed it from the Kantner song anymore than the Feelin' Groovy jam was actually based on the Paul Simon song.

I think 3/5/72 (the one in the Good Lovin jam) and 9/21/72 (Dark Star) are definitely Mind Left Body jams, though -- I think Jerry even gets out the slide on the 9/21/72 one ala a lot of the fall 73 versions. 3/5/72 is a quick one (Pig's rapping while it happens) but it's pretty clear that the band is all on the same page and playing the same distinct jam; I think 9/21/72 is a comparable length to a lot of the 73-74 ones -- certainly moreso than a lot of the teeny MLB jams from the later 70's or 80's.

However, I just listened to 3/10/85 BCT (thanks duderino), and that one is definitely a full-blown MLB jam. Whoa! Awesome stuff.


edit: Thinking it over, maybe the only way to settle this (for myself at least) is to break out the guitar and figure out the exact chord progression and key of the 1973 MLB's and compare to the earlier incarnations. Most of the 73 versions also have that "bridge" where they sit on one chord for a while before returning to the 4-chord thing. I'll try later tonight when I get home.
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Zephyr
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nickJ wrote:
However, I just listened to 3/10/85 BCT (thanks duderino), and that one is definitely a full-blown MLB jam. Whoa! Awesome stuff.

Sweet! I missed duderino's pointing this one out (where did he do that?) so thanks for mentioning it.

Koch! This is one for the list.

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nickJ



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 11:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the dude pointed out 3/10/85 earlier in this very thread:

Duderino wrote:
Found yet another unnamed MLBJ.
3/10/85 BCT - Deadbase and Deadlists both have this as the 2nd set....

Samson> Terrapin> Truckin> Smokestack> Drumz> Stella Blue> GDTRFB> Around> Johnny B. Goode E: Day Job

HOWEVER, both neglect to mention an 8 minute Mind Left Body Jam after Smokestack which dissolves into a Drums and Jer Left Body Jam and audience clapping about 2/3 the way through Cool stuff.....
Cool
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Duderino



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 10:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As for MLBJ not being a direct descendent of the Kantner song. Listen to the song on the album. It is definitely the theme from this song. But, it is quite possible that he and Jerry could have made it up. I'll have to listen to some of those early ones that were mentioned. In the past I've tried to pick up on those (9/21/72 ) but they seem a little different than the MLBJ that emerged later.

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Gopher



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 12:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Major League Baseball Jams Reply with quote

Kochman wrote:
10/18/78 A Zephyr find (at the end of NFA)
10/22/78 A Zephyr find



10/22/78 is after NFA....there is no NFA from 10/18/78

10/18/78 is PITB>Drums>MLB/Mojo jam>Wharf Rat

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Kochman
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Duderino wrote:
As for MLBJ not being a direct descendent of the Kantner song. Listen to the song on the album. It is definitely the theme from this song. But, it is quite possible that he and Jerry could have made it up. I'll have to listen to some of those early ones that were mentioned. In the past I've tried to pick up on those (9/21/72 ) but they seem a little different than the MLBJ that emerged later.

Perhaps the Kantner song is a descendant of the MLBJ... you know what I mean?
Like how Slipknot worked its way out eventually into a titled song.
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light into ashes



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice to see how this thread keeps going & going!

The MLBJ theme is first heard on our PERRO sessions tape, which is from January 1971. I assume it's Kantner playing guitar...it's pretty quick & basic at this point.

First popped up in the Dead's sets in early '72. (3/23/72 - which is NOT as good as the 4/8/72 version! - does have that neat Feelin' Groovy/Sugar Mag-type jam at the end, but no MLBJ.) Definite versions on 3/5/72 and 4/8/72, and 9/21.

Meanwhile Kantner/Slick/Freiberg recorded "Your Mind Has Left Your Body" in Nov/Dec '72 (with Garcia and Mickey Hart).
Perhaps coincidentally, the Dead didn't play the theme again til fall '73. Though I can't prove it (and maybe Lesh didn't even notice or remember it), I have to think Garcia was aware it was the same riff from the Kantner song - his slide playing in some MLB jams is so similar to his pedal-steel in the studio track.

How much Garcia might have been involved in COMPOSING "Your Mind Has Left Your Body", who knows? It wasn't uncommon for the Dead and the Airplane to share riffs...after all, St Stephen has the same riff as Volunteers! (And came a year earlier.)
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light into ashes



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is the interview where Phil talks a bit about the 'Mind Left Body' name with David Gans:
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They're discussing Dozin' at the Knick - this was the period when Phil was in charge of the live Dead releases, and they were debating what could be released & how often, whether there'd be any box sets or videos, etc, so that's pretty interesting.
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Zephyr
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 12:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

light into ashes wrote:
Nice to see how this thread keeps going & going!


Yes, and I am surprised at the number of instances we've found. Until this thread got going I thought Knickerbocker was the only real post-74 instance.

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lucasmcain



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nickJ wrote:
Does anyone have a collection of old Dupree's Diamond News? There was an interview with Phil around the time Dozin' at the Knick was released, and the interviewer asks him about the MLB jam. I can't remember the exact wording of Phil's response, but he stresses that it wasn't anything that was worked out in advance and says that it's basically just a little descending chromatic 4-chord progression. I remember that he seemed kind of incredulous that fans would get that worked up about it. I think it was definitely something they messed around with in rehearsals, but I'm not convinced that they consciously borrowed it from the Kantner song anymore than the Feelin' Groovy jam was actually based on the Paul Simon song.


I have the last few years on DDN. I'll take a look and see what I can find.
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nickJ



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, lucas. My rusty memory is that the Phil interview was before Jerry's death (93-94 maybe?), but deaddisc.com says that Dozin' came out in October 1996. If either of that helps...
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bzfgt



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder about 4-8-72...it always gets listed as MLB but it sounds to me like a relative, but something else.
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