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The September 1972 Review

 
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Kochman
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 2:33 pm    Post subject: The September 1972 Review Reply with quote

Ok, I am going to go on a journey here, and one by one, in order listen to and review all the shows of 9/72.
Dick picked 3 shows from this month to release, and I don't think sound quality was the only reason. So, let's figure out why!?
Picking up where Veneta left off... (bold dates were in the picks series)

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I will hyperlink the reviews to the dates as I go through and do the reviews.
If I get froggy, I may just add the Veneta and the rest of the West Coast Tour at the front end and the one show from Oct remaining on the East Coast Tour...


Last edited by Kochman on Wed Feb 24, 2010 3:58 pm; edited 18 times in total
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lucasmcain



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PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The California tour should definately be grouped with the fall. I think that is where the mojo begins. For me at least the 8/21 Dark Star> El Paso is better than the Oregon show.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You'll have a good time on this trip! Put on your headband and McGovern for President button on...
The best shows IMO - 9/21 and 9/28. So you are leaving 10/2 Springfield out?
I'm doing the journey from 6/14 - 7/2/85 - I have a mullet wig on and dayglow spandex!

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep, I am only doing September... if I make my goal to big, I will never finish it. The main reason I haven't done my Days Between Project yet... there are a lot of them.

Anyhow, are those 85 dates part of your source review guide section?
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No they arent part of my source review, but with the Captains permission, I'd like to change my source review to this run since I am listening to it (and IMO its better than the Fall run) SBDs are crisp!!

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds good to me
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Koch, that Darkstar you sugested from 9/16/72 is unreal!! I love the cool jazzy jam around the 20 minute mark.. Good call Cool

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Kochman
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Duderino wrote:
Koch, that Darkstar you sugested from 9/16/72 is unreal!! I love the cool jazzy jam around the 20 minute mark.. Good call Cool


HOLY SHIT! You listened to it.
Yes, this is what inspired me to do this review of Sep 72... that and the 4 official releases that are from the month... I wanted to get to the bottom of it!

I am thinking of a July 81 review next... after I finish this one.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its definitely on par with 9/21 and 10/18/2, but completely different. This will go into my pantheon of great Darkstars. Too bad the whole show isn't available, but the Playin and Dew are great too..

Re: getting to the bottom of September 72 - they were tight but loose, letting the music flow. The newer tunes had started to be honed to a fine edge, and Keith was really starting to push them to higher heights. Also Bobby had a killer tone.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 8:50 am    Post subject: voi gradicono pił? Reply with quote

State ottenendo del lavoro fatto?

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Kochman
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

9/16/72 review is now complete... linked in above.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Went tp 9/19, 9/26,27 and 28.Anxiouly awaiting your reviews of these shows Koch Exclamation

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Kochman
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fillmoreeast wrote:
Went tp 9/19, 9/26,27 and 28.Anxiouly awaiting your reviews of these shows Koch Exclamation


The pressure builds... I will probably ask you to chime in on both of those to express anything you remember (whatever you can remember would be cool).
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now that I am, chronologically at least, more than 1/2 way done with this project here are some thoughts on Sep 72.

Good Stuff
1) Several high energy shows
2) The Tiger is emerging
3) PITBs are generally outstanding
4) Lots of cowboy tunes and the Big RR Blues really hit the spot
5) Keith is not afraid to take charge and send jams off in new directions
6) 3 DP in the month mean great SQ for those shows in particular
7) Casey Jones are full blown train rides
8) 9/16/72 has one of the best DS ever

Bad Stuff
1) Setlist variety is terrible... first set setlists barely change... and second set setlists will either have a TOO or Dark Star as the main jam vehicle, don't be surprised if attached to Truckin' and or He's Gone, and every single encore so far has been One More Saturday Night... like I said in one review, every night was Saturday if you were the GD in September 1972!
2) Some shows have very bad SQ which definitely causes some great subtleties to be lost (until a better source surfaces at least)
3) Donna has been getting more and more aggressive/confident/painful/outrageous as the month progresses

And so, the research/review continues. I like the concept of what I am doing, though I really picked a month with a lot of shows!
Perhaps something from the Brent Era will be next (July 81?)
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Duderino



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kochman wrote:
Now that I am, chronologically at least, more than 1/2 way done with this project here are some thoughts on Sep 72.

Good Stuff
1) Several high energy shows
2) The Tiger is emerging
3) PITBs are generally outstanding
4) Lots of cowboy tunes and the Big RR Blues really hit the spot
5) Keith is not afraid to take charge and send jams off in new directions
6) 3 DP in the month mean great SQ for those shows in particular
7) Casey Jones are full blown train rides
8) 9/16/72 has one of the best DS ever

Bad Stuff
1) Setlist variety is terrible... first set setlists barely change... and second set setlists will either have a TOO or Dark Star as the main jam vehicle, don't be surprised if attached to Truckin' and or He's Gone, and every single encore so far has been One More Saturday Night... like I said in one review, every night was Saturday if you were the GD in September 1972!
2) Some shows have very bad SQ which definitely causes some great subtleties to be lost (until a better source surfaces at least)
3) Donna has been getting more and more aggressive/confident/painful/outrageous as the month progresses

And so, the research/review continues. I like the concept of what I am doing, though I really picked a month with a lot of shows!
Perhaps something from the Brent Era will be next (July 81?)


Yeah, well you pretty much hit it on the head. Quality of playing is outstanding but the first sets get especially redundant. Sort of like Spring 77 if you think about it.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Duderino wrote:

Yeah, well you pretty much hit it on the head. Quality of playing is outstanding but the first sets get especially redundant. Sort of like Spring 77 if you think about it.


Funny you say that... I give this month the edge over the two months of repetitive quality.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 8:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This project is on hold until the end of the tournament, or closer to the end at least.

I am surprised that not one of these great shows made the top 50. Perhaps these reviews will encourage some more votes for them in the next round of top 50 voting after the tournament?
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 10:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kochman wrote:
This project is on hold until the end of the tournament, or closer to the end at least.

I am surprised that not one of these great shows made the top 50. Perhaps these reviews will encourage some more votes for them in the next round of top 50 voting after the tournament?


Wow. That is weird. Nothing from Sept 72 - that is criminal. 9/21/72 is the creme de la creme with the Stanley shows and Baltimore not far behind. Didnt include Beantown because neither are complete shows right??. If push came to shove I would easily rank 9/21 or 9/28 as tops in 72.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that, despite 3 DPs from the month, the month still suffers from under-exposure when compared to E72... which gets most of the glory from 72... with Veneta soaking up the rest.

Too bad really, these shows are all pretty monstrous.
So far on this review 9/10 & 9/16 & 9/17 have been the best. 3 of the several shows I have reviewed... that's how great the month is...
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Kochman
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh man... I am dragging on finishing these last two dates.
I will not be branching into Oct 72 even one date to finish the actual tour... nor will I be going back into August 72 to finish that tour...
This will be it.
It has been good. Sometimes it has been not so good, felt like work.

I will try to finish up the last two shows by the end of June.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm listening to 9/28/72 right now and I think I found the origin of Bob's annoying Truckin whistle. Listen to the intro on GSET. Guess he went out and bought a shiny new whistle that day...GREAT show by the way. You will enjoy!!!

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I listened to 9/28/72 last night, after a long Sep 72 hiatus... I forgot to bring my notes today to write the review, so I will try to post it tonight.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, so, I have finished the month, and will now give my final thoughts.

Great month over all... the biggest complaints are:
1) SQ issues (it was a long time ago, so this is expected) which is generally hiss related, but a few shows have warbles througout, and a few other have mix issues
2) Lack of setlist variance - this is a huge one. This is part of why it took me so long to finish the month (other than the number of shows)... I got burned out of the same songs played in pretty much the same way, often in the same slots.

Now, ranking of members as to their performance within the tour:
1) Jerry - he is all over this period. Not quite as developed on a personal playing level as he would be by late 76-85 period, but nonetheless, superb. his 90% is still 50% higher than the next competitor in my book, so this was all amazing stuff. Pretty ground breaking to. The Tiger made several appearances also, a treat whenever it occurs.
2) Billy - runner up for MVP of the month. Day in day out this guy was all over it. I still think he must have had a tiny gnome hidden behind his bass drum with its own mikes to help suppliment his playing. I once read that he said he would just play like he was dancing, well, this tour seems exactly that way.
3) Keith was the man here, forcing a hard charging tempo more often than not. He also would do some great dark notes when they were in DS or TOO, the standard jam vehicles for the tour. The last show, 9/30/72, where his level is too low, points out exactly how important his contribution was... because the show falls short without him.
4) Phil, pretty solid performance from Phil in general. Some bass solos in here, not something I particularly enjoy, but a showcase of his skills. He wasn't quite as funky as he would become later in his career.
5) Bobby... sometimes he oversang (big surprise) and his playing wasn't fully developed, though it was not bad by any means. I found his guitar contributions to be awesome.
999) Donna - I would have placed her lower, but you get the point. She sucked all month long, and for the next 2 years, almost without exception (exception being when she was pregnant and absent). Her contributions of songs like GSET were inexcusable, because the playing was so hot. BIODTL was painful, but thankfully sparingly played... PITB, played almost every night, had her stain, but luckily minutes of jamming overpowers that. Now, Sing Me Back Home... Donna... jeez... what can be said that hasn't been said already.

Now, for the bright spots:
1) Teamwork, the number 1 thing going for these guys in this period was that while I think Billy and Keith were in their period of personal peaks (Billy's being 71-4 and Keith's being mainly 72), the rest of the band, while not in their personal peaks, were so close it makes for an amazing group. You have Keith and Billy at 100%, Jerry at 90%, and the rest (other than Donna) at at least 80% efficiency, you have an awesome thing. There is also the untangible, which is just the spirit of the music in general, pretty cool at this time, though the next two years would see this develop nicely.
2) The Meat - the jam sections of these shows, while predictable on the setlist aspect, were awesome most of the time. Musical journeys that were often powerful, exploratory, and evoked the Tiger.
3) Length of shows - one of these shows was 4.5 hours long! Wow! A few of the other topped 4 hours.
4) Changes - you can hear, over the course of the month, some changes. When they hit the east coast portion in the middle of the month, it starts out how the previous tour within the month was, but started evolving, we started to finally get some setlist changes that were desperately needed for example. This lead to the coolest part of the month, which was the 16th through the 28th... I know, that is like 1/2 the month, but what can I do?

Overall, enjoyable tour for sure. The project dragged along due to reasons I mentioned above, but I am glad I did it. I feel like an expert on the month now. My initial inspiration was to see if the rest of the month compared to the 3 Dick's Picks from within the month. My answer to this question is that for the most part, yes. Dick picked the best shows, but he could have also picked the 16th, for example, or a couple of other mid-late month shows that he didn't pick.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice overall review of a great month from a great year. Right on the money about Kreutzman.Like the rest of the band he is grossly under-rated. This guy's one of the best in the business! Thanks for all your hard work on this project Koch, I really enjoyed reading the reviews Cool

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some follow on thoughts some months after completing the project.

The repetitious nature of 72 in particular really bothers me. It means that I can only listen to a 72 show once every month or two, because I really don't do well with hearing non-jammed versions of songs in the first set over and over.

What did that mean on the flip side... it meant that the jam sections, when available, were money if for no other reason than much practice and recent auditory references within their own spotty memories at the time.

What year did they start in with the cocaine big time? 74? Or before? Anyone know?
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kochman wrote:
Some follow on thoughts some months after completing the project.

The repetitious nature of 72 in particular really bothers me. It means that I can only listen to a 72 show once every month or two, because I really don't do well with hearing non-jammed versions of songs in the first set over and over.

What did that mean on the flip side... it meant that the jam sections, when available, were money if for no other reason than much practice and recent auditory references within their own spotty memories at the time.

What year did they start in with the cocaine big time? 74? Or before? Anyone know?


I thought that came later -- like '77.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kochman wrote:
Some follow on thoughts some months after completing the project.

The repetitious nature of 72 in particular really bothers me. It means that I can only listen to a 72 show once every month or two, because I really don't do well with hearing non-jammed versions of songs in the first set over and over.

What did that mean on the flip side... it meant that the jam sections, when available, were money if for no other reason than much practice and recent auditory references within their own spotty memories at the time.

What year did they start in with the cocaine big time? 74? Or before? Anyone know?


I remember reading that the freebasing got really bad during '74, and there was one point before a show they put al their stash in a pile and burned it or somethng....I cant remember exactly, but Ill look it up..
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kochman wrote:
The repetitious nature of 72 in particular really bothers me. It means that I can only listen to a 72 show once every month or two, because I really don't do well with hearing non-jammed versions of songs in the first set over and over.


I get what you mean about first set tunes, for the most part. But consider this one for example. The AU show from Sept 30..

Set 1

The Promised Land
Deal
Mexicali Blues
Sugaree
Black Throated Wind
China Cat Sunflower ->
I Know You Rider
El Paso
Bird Song
Big River
Loser
Playing In The Band
Casey Jones

Repetitive, maybe. But whatever else it is, this is 13 great songs, and I'd say that at least half of them are very well jammed out -- as well as any other year. I'll grant you that Deal and Sugaree were jammed better in the 80s. But PITB is over 17 minutes! You want not jammed out? Try an 8-minute Playin from the 80s or 90s. Bird Song? China> Rider? Jam. Jam.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, PITBs were awesome at this stage... and playing it every damn night is part of that, that helped them more than hurt them. When you take one show, isolated, such as you have, its easier to give it compliments. When you listen to night after night of the same set practically, played the same way... not so much. That's the problem...

I don't agree that 1/2 of the 1st set songs are jammed out as well as any other year... pretty much I would only give that honor to PITB and C>R... the other "jam" songs, being liberal in the term, would be Deal (which in 72 is not a jam song at all), Sugaree, Bird Song (I rather dislike the 72 versions to be honest, the fake ending in the middle really breaks the otherwise nice groove), and Loser... there are far superior years for all of those tunes...

Its ok though, because I have 29 other years of concerts that I can listen to between shows... so its really a moot point.

Too bad the source of this particular show was lame, and really I didn't think the playing was that good in this show, at least compared to the rest of the month.

Anyhow, in retrospect, 72 is probably my favorite year for PITB, which is a pretty big statement.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kochman wrote:
Yes, PITBs were awesome at this stage... and playing it every damn night is part of that, that helped them more than hurt them. When you take one show, isolated, such as you have, its easier to give it compliments. When you listen to night after night of the same set practically, played the same way... not so much. That's the problem...


Good point... on the other hand -- if I were in a band that was rocking that song that hard, I'd want to play it every night too. Off all those songs, Playin is probably the worst example of one that sounded the same every time.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

snow_and_rain wrote:
Kochman wrote:
Yes, PITBs were awesome at this stage... and playing it every damn night is part of that, that helped them more than hurt them. When you take one show, isolated, such as you have, its easier to give it compliments. When you listen to night after night of the same set practically, played the same way... not so much. That's the problem...


Good point... on the other hand -- if I were in a band that was rocking that song that hard, I'd want to play it every night too. Off all those songs, Playin is probably the worst example of one that sounded the same every time.

Agreed on both points... of all the songs I got tired of... PITB was the last one... easily.
The ones that really bothered me more were the no jam songs, you know... the P Lands, Deals, etc.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No argument from me on '72 Deals. I like Promised Land though. Smile

For me, the only real way to evaluate one show against another is in term of heady jamming. The more heady jamming, the better. If I have to accept a few un-jammed Deals and the occasional Chuck Berry song to get there, then so be it.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, believe me, I don't mind those songs generally, but I do mind them night after night.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Holy shiznit. I was rather happy to reread your reviews. So who ever bumped it back up thanks.

The reviews were excellent, I was more more interested in the conclusion though. I agree with many points that you have brought up. Setlist rotation was a thing of the future then. Donna can make or break a song. Mostly break it. There are a couple songs I really dug her presence (GSET was one of them....sometimes).
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have added the show and sound quality ratings next to the applicable dates for quick reference if you are looking for some Sep 72 to spin.
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