The Lost Sailor's Pub Forum Index The Lost Sailor's Pub

 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

12-19-93 Oakland - under Kochman attack

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Lost Sailor's Pub Forum Index -> The Yo Vinny Era (Fall 1990 - Summer 1995)
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Ads






Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 3:32 am    Post subject: Ads

Back to top
swamiGD80s
Site Admin


Joined: 27 Jun 2008
Posts: 1801
Location: Atlantic Beach, FL

PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 9:13 pm    Post subject: 12-19-93 Oakland - under Kochman attack Reply with quote

At this point it is necessary for me to defend this outstanding performance against blatant attacks out of left field from someone that I thought was a fan of this time period.

Kochman myth #1: Swami likes this show mainly because he was in attendance.

The lack of logic here is amazing. IF I in fact did favor this show because of having been there, THEN one would logically conclude that I generally favor all shows that I attended. HOWEVER this generality does not hold true. Here are some shows that I attended but do not hold in particular high regard:

Cap Centre 92, RFK 92, Star Lake 92, 4-5-93 Nassau, 03-17-94 MSG, Seattle 94, 06-17-94, 06-18-94, 10-09-94, 03-18-95, RFK 95.

Others such as Cap Centre 91 & 93, RFK 92 & 93 I like a lot, but wouldn't put them in the same "great" category as 12-19-93.

Of the 30-some shows I attended, the best (upon listening to the recording) were 03-15-90, 06-14-91, and 12-19-93.

So how is it possible to conclude logically that I love 12-19-93 because simply I was a the show? Furthermore I am on record as saying that the recording of this performance is much better than I remembered the show being at the time.

Kochman myth #2: Jerry's voice is completely shot throughout the whole show.

This is an exaggeration. While Jerry was struggling with vocals, he did manage to sing the lyrics throughout most of the show. A notable exception is the Days Between, in which Jerry has trouble with the first couple verses. But for someone that has never heard this show to be given the impression that Jerry had no voice at all the entire show is unacceptable.

There are many shows throughout the years in which Jerry's voice was less than clear and dynamic. January 1978 Jerry actually lost his voice, and then in November 78 Jerry was again sick. Yet some excellent shows were played that November. 1984, my favorite year, was fat-man Jerry with less-than-top 40 quality singing. And of course 1985 brought out Kermit. The late 80s featured Jerry at times sounding like an old man, but did we mind that during Morning Dews such as 9-18-87??

If you are looking for great vocals, this is not the show for you - obviously. But I vehemently disagree that Jerry's vocals somehow ruin the show or take it out of consideration against it's peers. The power, energy, and crispiness of this performance easily overcome it's faults. If you think that by December 1993 that the band was washed up and Jerry didn't care anymore, just listen to Scarlet-Fire, Estimated-So Many Roads.....or if you don't have that much time how about just So Many Roads!

Highlights:

Bertha-Wang Dang Exclamation
Bird Song Idea
Scarlet-Fire
Estimated-SO MANY ROADS
Other One-Days

_________________
Even the blind man knows when the rain is falling.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Zephyr
Site Admin


Joined: 07 Jul 2008
Posts: 917
Location: Under the sea, dressed in green.

PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm loading it onto the Zephalopod now. I'll adjudicate this dispute in due course. Stay in your corners until the bell rings.

_________________

Only registered users can see links on this forum!
Register or Login on forum!


Dead to the Core.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kochman
Captain


Joined: 23 Jun 2008
Posts: 10252
Location: Davy Jones' Locker

PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 7:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Laughing Laughing Laughing
Myth #3: Swami contends that because he doesn't love every show he attended that his bias is not present for this one and any other idea lacks logic.
Laughing Laughing Laughing

12/12, 12/13, 12/17, three shows that I prefer from within the month of December 93 alone.

BUT, my point is missed completely by this post. I am not saying this show sucks. I am saying 9/22/93 is superior... So, Zeph, to conclude your decision, you will have to listen to both shows... sorry to hamper you with extra GD to listen to, but I am directly comparing it to that show when I brought up this... in the 92-93 run off voting they are competing.

Anyhow, Swami, I can see you are getting emotional about it. Take a step back, take a deep breath, and count to ten. Not trying to irk you, just pointing out it is not as good as 9/22/93...
Maybe goading Swami into writing the review was my secret plan... I will link it into the Dec 93 project.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kochman
Captain


Joined: 23 Jun 2008
Posts: 10252
Location: Davy Jones' Locker

PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 8:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, so, last night, I broke all protocal with the wife, and listened to much of this show... until I had to go to sleep. 90%...

Anyhow, here are my refreshed thoughts on the matter.
12-19-93 Oakland Coliseum Arena, Oakland, Ca. (Sun)
1: Bertha> Wang Dang Doodle, Loose Lucy, Queen Jane, Roses, All Over Now, Bird Song> Promised
2: Scarlet> Fire, Estimated> So Many Roads> Truckin> Smokestack> Drumz> Other One> Days Between> Sugar Magnolia E: Brokedown

1st 4 songs of the show: Bertha> Wang Dang Doodle, Loose Lucy, Queen Jane
Uh, not one of which I would look for in a show. I downright don't like Loose Lucy... Bertha is only so so (especially in this era)... Wang Dang is alright, but not really a blues fan... and Queen Jane, while I like it, is one of the least interesting of the Dylan possibilities. It had a nice Vince solo.
Now, for the playing... Jerry's show voice makes itself clear as early as Loose Lucy, though it does recover.
Roses was nice, with great Vince again. All over now, its cool and all, but again, not something that usually stands out to me.
The Bird Song was nice, as they generally were in 93. This one doesn't stand out above others from this year, but again, this was a great year for the song.

In the 2nd set, things are more exciting for me... The Fire is pretty damn good. Excellent MIDI work, etc. Definitely a keeper. But, not nearly a best ever effort for the combo.
Estimated, not a huge fan of the prophet, especially in this era. Too slow for me to get interested (unless there is a sax to assist).
Nice placement and effort on So Many Roads, Jerry's voice held out for this one. Truckin>Smokestack is always cool.
Out of Space you get TOO, this one is pretty good.
The Days, and this is critical for me, is performed well enough on the instruments, and no, this is not the only time Jerry solos between versus (I think). The downfall... in a ballad, you better be able to sing. Ballads are mainly about the words and the pay off at the end... right? So, if the words are completely mangled and the voice is shot... where does that leave us.

In closing, very good 2nd set, not great due to bungling the ballad and the Estimated being slow... 1st set, not so much. I find it largely uninteresting every time I listen to the show.
A very good show, overall, but just not Top 64 material. Within the month I prefer 12/12, 12/13 & 12/17... within the year, you also got 3/10, 6/23, 9/13, 9/17, 9/22 and 9/29 which all bring more to the table.
So, again, very good show. Not top 64... maybe top 100.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
swamiGD80s
Site Admin


Joined: 27 Jun 2008
Posts: 1801
Location: Atlantic Beach, FL

PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That was a fuckin ridiculous review. I guess I will have to start shitting on some of Kochman's overrated shows such as 10-21-83.

Bertha-WangDang is filled with energy and Wang Dang may be my favorite version out there. Bird Song easily stands out over it's competition from 93 - best I've heard from the year. Phil is on fire along with Vince and Bobby. Jerry perfectly utilizes the "crisp" guitar sound.

The commentary above about the Scarlet-Fire and Estimated is laughable. Point me to other versions of Fire in this era where Jerry shreds the solo breaks to the level that he does between verses 2 & 3 in this one. Uh...yea. And Estimated slow? This ain't 1982 folks - Estimated was slowed down in the 90s and this version is just about the normal tempo. But the execution is there - crisp -nice soloing in the jam by Vince (sax sound) and Jerry.

So Many Roads is spine-chilling late Jerry - awesome. I don't find this in other Dec 93 shows, even though I do like the month in general.

Remainder of the show is well executed except for Jerry's voice, and again it should be noted that Phil and Vince continued to dominate. In particular Vince's piano work in the Space-OtherOne-Days was some of his best work. Brokedown to end the year - not bad.

_________________
Even the blind man knows when the rain is falling.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kochman
Captain


Joined: 23 Jun 2008
Posts: 10252
Location: Davy Jones' Locker

PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 8:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To answer your direct questions...
Better Bird Song 8/21/93
As for Fire, I didn't say better Fire in this year, I said that, as a combo, it is not nearly a top effort ever... as in the entire career, not 93.
Estimated slow = me not like... is that ok?

Get over it dude, I can have a differing opinion. I gave it a fresh listen, and this is what I thought.
Calling it like I see it is not an attack.
What confounds me is that you are clearly taking this personally. Why? Because you like it? That doesn't make it an attack on you... but you seem to see it that way.

The bottom line, you said its a great show, I say it is very good. Is that really worth freaking out about? That tiny difference in opinion?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Duderino



Joined: 09 Jul 2008
Posts: 3031
Location: Baltimore

PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm enjoying this exchange....lunge at each others throats like wolves.

_________________
We used to play for acid, now we play for Clive.


Last edited by Duderino on Fri Nov 20, 2009 2:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Zephyr
Site Admin


Joined: 07 Jul 2008
Posts: 917
Location: Under the sea, dressed in green.

PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Duderino wrote:
I'm enjoying this exchange....lunge at each others throats like wolves.


Me too. Laughing These two ladies need to get a room.

I've listened to three-quarters of 12/19 and have heard about five minutes of material I would ever want to hear again. I expect 9/22 to be about on par.

_________________

Only registered users can see links on this forum!
Register or Login on forum!


Dead to the Core.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kochman
Captain


Joined: 23 Jun 2008
Posts: 10252
Location: Davy Jones' Locker

PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zephyr, interesting that you didn't enjoy it at all... its funny, because I get shredded for calling it just "very good" instead of "great", but I suppose he'll give you a pass.
I predict another March Deadness type hiatus after Swami's tirade above and what exchange we had offline.

My review was "not fair", whatever that means, and I apparently called him a liar at some point, though you'd be hard pressed to find it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Zephyr
Site Admin


Joined: 07 Jul 2008
Posts: 917
Location: Under the sea, dressed in green.

PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The key issue for me is I absolutely hate Garcia's sound all the way through. WTF? It sounds like his guitar is actually broken; all you can hear is an unpleasant metallic twanginess. Combine the shitty sound with plenty o' sour notes and blown lyrics and raspy voices and slow tempos and you've got 1993 writ large: Crap.

The weird thing is that I enjoyed the few shows I attended in 93 and 94, but when I listen to the recordings it is just hour after hour of suck. Kind of like Phil and Friends shows-versus-recordings: Had a blast at the show, can't stand the download.

_________________

Only registered users can see links on this forum!
Register or Login on forum!


Dead to the Core.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kochman
Captain


Joined: 23 Jun 2008
Posts: 10252
Location: Davy Jones' Locker

PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like his tone personally.
Duderino had that complaint about 93 also.
That tone started [CENSORED] around Autzen (8/21-22), and got crisper through the year. March has much less of it, for example.

Anyhow, to each his own! I'm not going to take my ball and go home over a little musical difference of opinion... I rather enjoy it.

Now, let's bash Donna! Laughing
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dylan&theded



Joined: 31 Mar 2009
Posts: 640

PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

boo
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Zephyr
Site Admin


Joined: 07 Jul 2008
Posts: 917
Location: Under the sea, dressed in green.

PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's worth noting that all of the band's most highly regarded years (72-77) involved Donna. My theory (the Zephyr Theory About Donna) is that Donna was the muse who pulled artistic visions from the entire band. Without her there would have been no staggering artistic peak for the band. They worshiped her through the music. We must worship her, too. WORSHIP HER, KOCH!

_________________

Only registered users can see links on this forum!
Register or Login on forum!


Dead to the Core.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kochman
Captain


Joined: 23 Jun 2008
Posts: 10252
Location: Davy Jones' Locker

PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zephyr wrote:
It's worth noting that all of the band's most highly regarded years (72-77) involved Donna. My theory (the Zephyr Theory About Donna) is that Donna was the muse who pulled artistic visions from the entire band. Without her there would have been no staggering artistic peak for the band. They worshiped her through the music. We must worship her, too. WORSHIP HER, KOCH!

Wrong...
Their best years clearly came in spite of her. This is common knowledge.

If that was the best looking woman they could get... ha! She was a hag... they could easily have done better than the married hag if it was about worshiping...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Zephyr
Site Admin


Joined: 07 Jul 2008
Posts: 917
Location: Under the sea, dressed in green.

PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kochman wrote:
Zephyr wrote:
It's worth noting that all of the band's most highly regarded years (72-77) involved Donna. My theory (the Zephyr Theory About Donna) is that Donna was the muse who pulled artistic visions from the entire band. Without her there would have been no staggering artistic peak for the band. They worshiped her through the music. We must worship her, too. WORSHIP HER, KOCH!

Wrong...
Their best years clearly came in spite of her. This is common knowledge.

If that was the best looking woman they could get... ha! She was a hag... they could easily have done better than the married hag if it was about worshiping...


You dwell in outer dark, my friend; beyond the pale. While the rest of us are worshiping the Holy Wailer I'll toss in a prayer or two for you, too.

_________________

Only registered users can see links on this forum!
Register or Login on forum!


Dead to the Core.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kochman
Captain


Joined: 23 Jun 2008
Posts: 10252
Location: Davy Jones' Locker

PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You mean man... This is how you disagreeing with me makes me feel...

Only registered users can see links on this forum!
Register or Login on forum!

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Zephyr
Site Admin


Joined: 07 Jul 2008
Posts: 917
Location: Under the sea, dressed in green.

PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I spent most of last night making a Crap Filter so I could continue listening to 12/19 and then go on to checking out 9/22. I think I may still need to wear a HazMat suit, too. How do you guys cope with this kind of stuff?


Only registered users can see links on this forum!
Register or Login on forum!


_________________

Only registered users can see links on this forum!
Register or Login on forum!


Dead to the Core.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Duderino



Joined: 09 Jul 2008
Posts: 3031
Location: Baltimore

PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zephyr wrote:
It's worth noting that all of the band's most highly regarded years (72-77) involved Donna. My theory (the Zephyr Theory About Donna) is that Donna was the muse who pulled artistic visions from the entire band. Without her there would have been no staggering artistic peak for the band. They worshiped her through the music. We must worship her, too. WORSHIP HER, KOCH!

LOL!! That is great.
About 93 - there is some very good playing during the year, but the quasi-acoustic midi tone Jerry was using just doesn't have any balls. What a waste of his beautiful double Fender Twin heads, which produce that crunchy natural overdrive.

_________________
We used to play for acid, now we play for Clive.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
lucasmcain



Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Posts: 1356

PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I also hate Garcia's guitar tone after the Spring Tour. I think that the ever growing MIDI aresenal also took away some of his guitar focus. He was trying to figure out what sounds he was going to pull out and that led to him messing around with the nobs on his ax. This in turn led to missed guitar parts and a bunch of other things.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kochman
Captain


Joined: 23 Jun 2008
Posts: 10252
Location: Davy Jones' Locker

PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Come on guys, seriously? Acoustic sound bothers you?
But Donna doesn't? Get out of here.

I like the twangy quasi-acoustic sound.
Its no longer in your face 1980s Garcia... its dude its the 90s, we got a doper in the White House, let's chill Garcia.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
lucasmcain



Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Posts: 1356

PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kochman wrote:
Come on guys, seriously? Acoustic sound bothers you?
But Donna doesn't? Get out of here.

I like the twangy quasi-acoustic sound.
Its no longer in your face 1980s Garcia... its dude its the 90s, we got a doper in the White House, let's chill Garcia.



Well it's not acoustic music.I love the acoustic sets and they are what they are. I don't need to hear the acoustic tone in my Scarlet>Fires, Estimateds, Row Jimmy etc..... It does not sound full but more like a tin sound. As stated above it lacks balls.

As far as the Donna thing, Garcias [CENSORED] voice in this set alone makes it almost unlistenable the whole way through. Donna might mess up moments and then it goes away. This stuff Garcia is pulling off is waaaaay more annoying. I can barely listen to anything from mid 93 on. I won't even go into the entire verses he misses thing. So yes, I'll take a bad Donna moment over a bad Garcia show any day of the week.

You guys can stand up for this erea as much as want. After 93 I don't get any enjoyment out of these shows and it is a direct result of Jerry dying before our eyes and ears. I don't need to relive these times and listening to the Big Man stuggle theough these performances.......I just can't do it.

Furthermore there many other aspects of this era that bug the crap out of me as well. The setlists, the new songs, the new sound, Phil's singing, the scene in general.....It's just hard for me to get into.

As Zepher has been posting from those EXCELLENT magazine articles, I went looking through my stuff. I have the last three to four years or so of Dupree's Diamond News. It is extrememly painful to read the reviews of shows, tours and year-end reviews, let alone the pleas from bandmembers concerning the scene Time after time it goes back to Garcia's problems both onstage and off. All I could do was shake my head because the writing was on the wall starting in 92. Living through it once is more than enough.

We can go back and forth forever. I've given 92-95 a bunch of tries and it ain't working. It's not going to work and I'm ok with that. Yes there are some moments that shine, but damn I find it real hard to go hunting for them. But it is a good thing that there are fans of this era and I respect your opinions, it's not for me.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kochman
Captain


Joined: 23 Jun 2008
Posts: 10252
Location: Davy Jones' Locker

PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Come on dude, its quasi-acoustic... clearly electric. That's not the point.
Anyhow, I don't get why, even if you think it sounds acoustic completely, that would be a turn off.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
lucasmcain



Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Posts: 1356

PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well because it sounds like [CENSORED] ! It's tinny and grating. Sharp instead of smoothe. It dosen't sound good to me. Maybe as a guitar player I can tell a huge difference between guages of strings. The sound gets more metallalic instead of smoothe and warm.

We can do this all day and night. I don't like it. You don't like 71 and I don't get how you don't like it.....We can't come to an agreement on this.....We both need help.... I'll agree to disagree and we can both try to point eachother in some direction but as of today I AIN'T BUDGING! Very Happy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Zephyr
Site Admin


Joined: 07 Jul 2008
Posts: 917
Location: Under the sea, dressed in green.

PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lucasmcain wrote:
because it sounds like shit!


Ditto. Especially the "because it sounds like shit!" part.

The interesting thing about this exchange is that I, too, love Garcia's sound in 71. The sound he has on Skull&Roses is perfect to my humble ears.

lucasmcain also makes a good point regarding Garcia's distracted attention. It's just like Weir's inability to concentrate while kicking his amp and climbing the scaffolding.

_________________

Only registered users can see links on this forum!
Register or Login on forum!


Dead to the Core.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Duderino



Joined: 09 Jul 2008
Posts: 3031
Location: Baltimore

PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zephyr wrote:
lucasmcain wrote:
because it sounds like shit!


Ditto. Especially the "because it sounds like shit!" part.

The interesting thing about this exchange is that I, too, love Garcia's sound in 71. The sound he has on Skull&Roses is perfect to my humble ears.

lucasmcain also makes a good point regarding Garcia's distracted attention. It's just like Weir's inability to concentrate while kicking his amp and climbing the scaffolding.

I'm with you guys.

_________________
We used to play for acid, now we play for Clive.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kochman
Captain


Joined: 23 Jun 2008
Posts: 10252
Location: Davy Jones' Locker

PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lucasmcain wrote:
Well because it sounds like [CENSORED] ! It's tinny and grating. Sharp instead of smoothe. It dosen't sound good to me. Maybe as a guitar player I can tell a huge difference between guages of strings. The sound gets more metallalic instead of smoothe and warm.

Agree to disagree it is.
However, I heartily deny that you being a guitar player has anything to do with anything. It doesn't matter about the guage, because I know of some guitar players who like this tone. Swami, for one, is a guitar player.

I can definitely hear the difference. It started mainly in August, and by December is was very metallic.
As you said, I like it, you don't. You 3 hate the tone, that's fine. [CENSORED] all over it... doesn't really matter (as my shitting on 71 doesn't really matter). Many like it, and I proudly count myself amongst them. Its cool. Jerry knew what he was doing... he had cleaned up his act. I will say, that during some songs he shouldn't have been so metallic/acoustic, but in some songs it really works great (jack-a-roe & peggy-o for example).

Anyhow, did you listen to the 6/23/93 Terrapin?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Duderino



Joined: 09 Jul 2008
Posts: 3031
Location: Baltimore

PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 10:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kochman wrote:
lucasmcain wrote:
Well because it sounds like [CENSORED] ! It's tinny and grating. Sharp instead of smoothe. It dosen't sound good to me. Maybe as a guitar player I can tell a huge difference between guages of strings. The sound gets more metallalic instead of smoothe and warm.

Agree to disagree it is.
However, I heartily deny that you being a guitar player has anything to do with anything. It doesn't matter about the guage, because I know of some guitar players who like this tone. Swami, for one, is a guitar player.

I can definitely hear the difference. It started mainly in August, and by December is was very metallic.
As you said, I like it, you don't. You 3 hate the tone, that's fine. [CENSORED] all over it... doesn't really matter (as my shitting on 71 doesn't really matter). Many like it, and I proudly count myself amongst them. Its cool. Jerry knew what he was doing... he had cleaned up his act. I will say, that during some songs he shouldn't have been so metallic/acoustic, but in some songs it really works great (jack-a-roe & peggy-o for example).

Anyhow, did you listen to the 6/23/93 Terrapin?

Yes, the acoustic tone worked during some tunes (Lazy River, Peggy-O) but some tunes like Samson, Truckin, Bucket, Loser..etc... demand some raunch/distortion or unfettered electric guitar tone.

_________________
We used to play for acid, now we play for Clive.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kochman
Captain


Joined: 23 Jun 2008
Posts: 10252
Location: Davy Jones' Locker

PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agreed... Samson and others beyond what you mentioned needed the hardcore, in your face, 80s tone back...

This goes to the point of Jerry worrying too much about the MIDI to worry about his guitar's nobs, etc. I agree with this point, and in general think that MIDI was a net loss (though there are moments of brilliance with it too).
Keeping the same tone for a whole show, and varying it with only the MIDI is not the best idea.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
lucasmcain



Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Posts: 1356

PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rob...it totally has EVERYTHING to do with guage and guitar tone. Holy crap dude! All instuments can be fine tuned to get the sound that YOU personally are looking for. THERE IS NO WRONG ANSEWER to what guage you use. I was pointing out that the guage of string has an affect on the sound of the instrument, I like a medium/high guage on my acoustic because I beat the crap out of it and I get the tone that I LIKE which in turn allows me to play the music that I want to.

Put different strings on that puppy and it will sound different. Use a different kind of steel, bronze, or even classical style of string and it produces a totally different sound. On electric I use a meduim guage cause I want the bend and sustain that makes it a litttle dirty.

I don't know if I misunderstood your point on that matter. It's a personal preference and it has a direct efffect on how one plays!!!!! I'll put it to you this way. There is a reson there are so many different types of strings styles and strings and companies that make them. If all guitars would come in one style that would be it. Again it's preference and I see how you can disagree with it, but to say it doesn't matter is not factual.

Anyway good points by all. I'm haven't listened to that Terrapin yet. It's on this weeks que and I'll get back to you on it. I'm looking forward to it and it's cool that we can all offer up some things on the different eras. I'm not trying to [CENSORED] all over this era, I'm just trying to verbalize why I don't like it as much as other eras.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kochman
Captain


Joined: 23 Jun 2008
Posts: 10252
Location: Davy Jones' Locker

PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you did misunderstand my point. My point was, in response to your point...
Quote:
Maybe as a guitar player I can tell a huge difference between guages of strings.


My point was, you don't have to be a guitar player to hear the difference. I can hear the difference quite easily as a guitar layperson.

Anyhow, sometimes that quasi-not quite yet metallic tone, pre-August, lead to some really driving tones during shreds, like the post Terrapin jam of 6/23/93... which I think you need to put to the front of the line and listen to now.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
lucasmcain



Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Posts: 1356

PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Got it now. Yeah sorry I misunderstood what you were getting at. It will go to second in line Rob. I got a bug up my butt for some jammy 86. It does exsist you just got to look around a bit.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Duderino



Joined: 09 Jul 2008
Posts: 3031
Location: Baltimore

PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lucasmcain wrote:
I got a bug up my butt for some jammy 86. It does exsist you just got to look around a bit.

I almost spit out my mid-afternoon coffee when I read this statement Shocked
This is the year of the 5:43 Eyes and a 3 min. Other One on 6/29
Yeah, you do have to look pretty hard to find jammy 86, but it does exist you are right. Eyes 3/27, Pre-drums 3/31, 3/21 Supplication Jam>LIG
Playin'>China Doll>Playin 3/8

Nice jammed out Playin's - 3/19, 5/4 and these 2 second sets featuring mucho Playin' themes:
3/28 Cumby
Playing In The Band [8:25] > Franklin's Tower [7:10] > I Need A Miracle [4:40] > Playing In The Band Jam [8:20] > Drums [11:26] > Space [3:43] > The Wheel [4:03] > Dear Mr. Fantasy [5:42] > Playing In The Band [2:35] > Around And Around [3:44] > Good Lovin' [7:03]

4/19 - this is a really nice jammed out 2nd set - too bad there were not a few more songs pre-drumz.
Crazy Fingers>Playing In The Band (22 minutes!); Drums ; Space ; The Other One ; China Doll ; Playing In The Band ; Sugar Magnolia

_________________
We used to play for acid, now we play for Clive.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
aikowolf



Joined: 03 Dec 2008
Posts: 442

PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

personally I have no idea why anyone would bother taking the time to defend OR attack 1993, 1992, 1991, 1994 or 1995 for that matter
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Zephyr
Site Admin


Joined: 07 Jul 2008
Posts: 917
Location: Under the sea, dressed in green.

PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kochman wrote:
Come on guys, seriously? Acoustic sound bothers you?
But Donna doesn't? Get out of here.


The Donna Extractor is nearly complete. If you could lend a brother another 15 or 16 billion I could have it up and running by Christmas.


Only registered users can see links on this forum!
Register or Login on forum!


_________________

Only registered users can see links on this forum!
Register or Login on forum!


Dead to the Core.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dogstarz
Guest





PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zephyr wrote:
Kochman wrote:
Come on guys, seriously? Acoustic sound bothers you?
But Donna doesn't? Get out of here.


The Donna Extractor is nearly complete. If you could lend a brother another 15 or 16 billion I could have it up and running by Christmas.


Only registered users can see links on this forum!
Register or Login on forum!



Does the Donna extractor come with those bad ass space suits.
Zephyr wrote:
In this picture, from the 1973 gig they played on Mars, Jerry is wearing a red T-shirt. You just can't see it.


Only registered users can see links on this forum!
Register or Login on forum!



The suits aren't actually space-suits; they're Donna-suits. To protect them from Donna. It was 1973, remember?
Designed by Bear, perfected by Healy.
Back to top
aikowolf



Joined: 03 Dec 2008
Posts: 442

PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jeez for 15-16 Billion you'd think we could Clone, Jerry, Pig & Brent then tell Donna & Cloned Keith to take a hike, the van is full
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Zephyr
Site Admin


Joined: 07 Jul 2008
Posts: 917
Location: Under the sea, dressed in green.

PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Before we start cloning, we'll need another 2 billion for the Mickey Synchronizer.


Only registered users can see links on this forum!
Register or Login on forum!


_________________

Only registered users can see links on this forum!
Register or Login on forum!


Dead to the Core.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
swamiGD80s
Site Admin


Joined: 27 Jun 2008
Posts: 1801
Location: Atlantic Beach, FL

PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 11:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

$2 Billion? That's Chump Change!

_________________
Even the blind man knows when the rain is falling.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kochman
Captain


Joined: 23 Jun 2008
Posts: 10252
Location: Davy Jones' Locker

PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, just ask Obama, he's slinging money around like its from monopoly sets. He's a deadhead of some sort, so he should be aware of the pain that is Donna.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
aikowolf



Joined: 03 Dec 2008
Posts: 442

PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kochman wrote:
Yeah, just ask Obama, he's slinging money around like its from monopoly sets. He's a deadhead of some sort, so he should be aware of the pain that is Donna.


well at least the money he is slinging s being disclosed instead of leaving u$ all in the dark a$ far a$ how much ca$h i$ needed to fight the global struggle again$t violent extremi$t$.

you know they blew it with G-Save.... should have been

Global-Wide Struggle against Violent Extremists - Under Seige

yep..

GW SAVE US!... Laughing


Last edited by aikowolf on Tue Nov 24, 2009 10:19 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kochman
Captain


Joined: 23 Jun 2008
Posts: 10252
Location: Davy Jones' Locker

PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You think its being disclosed? That's funny. Not true, but funny. Anyhow, it was a joke. Let's not get into serious debate here, or this thread will have to move into the political forum, and I want everyone to see it. Laughing
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Lost Sailor's Pub Forum Index -> The Yo Vinny Era (Fall 1990 - Summer 1995) All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
c d
e



Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group

Abuse - Report Abuse - TOS & Privacy.
Powered by forumup.it free forum, create your free forum! Created by Hyarbor & Qooqoa
Confirmed

Page generation time: 0.651