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Space.....My new theory....what do you all think?

 
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colonialsrv



Joined: 03 Mar 2010
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PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2011 9:23 pm    Post subject: Space.....My new theory....what do you all think? Reply with quote

So a while ago I started a thread about space. I was trying to find out when the first space was played. We all toyed with different ideas, such as dark star being like space and [CENSORED] like that.
I have this new theory as to the first space....5/21/74....during Playin in the Band. It's the longest playin in the band (around 46 minutes), and if you listen to it with all the jamming and the noodling, I think it could possibly be the 1st Space.
What do you think? Do you think it's possible, or do you think I've lost my mind.

Sorry about the BOLD print but ever since ive discovered it I just love it. Eventually I'll stop using it and get bored....but for the time being....

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spencer540



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PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2011 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good theory, but I'd argue that he first space was on 12/31/72, sandwiched between the other one with a drum and bass solo. I bet there are some hints of space during 73'

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colonialsrv



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PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2011 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting....I actually didn't think of that. I was more going for the long noodling and jamming. But I can totally agree with you there.
Thanks for adding to the thread. I'm hoping we can get a good convo going about this
Peace And b Wild
Mike

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tizi



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PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2011 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My nominee is the first ever Dark Star?

Is my nominee accepted?

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colonialsrv



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PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2011 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would say your nominee is somewhat accepted. See my personal opinion is that Space and Darkstar are two different entities. I think Space may have evolved from Darkstar, as well as other songs, but if you look at 1980 and beyond they made it a point to play Drums/Space. So I'm on a little mission to find out when people think the First Darkstar was done. Do you know what I mean?
Mike

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colonialsrv



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PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2011 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would say your nominee is somewhat accepted. See my personal opinion is that Space and Darkstar are two different entities. I think Space may have evolved from Darkstar, as well as other songs, but if you look at 1980 and beyond they made it a point to play Drums/Space. So I'm on a little mission to find out when people think the First Darkstar was done. Do you know what I mean?
Mike

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Kochman
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PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tizi wrote:
My nominee is the first ever Dark Star?

Is my nominee accepted?

No way... the first dark stars were rather short... they didn't really go interstellar, if you ask me.
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Duderino



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PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whenever they first went into Feedback (ala Live Dead). Completely out there, non-melodic chaos. It's space, they just called it a different name.

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Kochman
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PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Duderino wrote:
Whenever they first went into Feedback (ala Live Dead). Completely out there, non-melodic chaos. It's space, they just called it a different name.

Hmmm...
I would say that's torture... and while some space is torture, not all torture is space...
All feedback is torture, but all torture is not space...
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Duderino



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PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kochman wrote:
Duderino wrote:
Whenever they first went into Feedback (ala Live Dead). Completely out there, non-melodic chaos. It's space, they just called it a different name.

Hmmm...
I would say that's torture... and while some space is torture, not all torture is space...
All feedback is torture, but all torture is not space...

Its not all "feedback" they are twiddling knobs, making generally weird noises...

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colonialsrv



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PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I Have to agree with dude on that one. There was nothing better than seeing the boys live and having them go into some really trippy jam, or watching a wild space while the crowd was going crazy, and feeding off of each others energy, and seeing all the glow sticks, and watching the twirlers.

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Duderino



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 8:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Duderino wrote:
Kochman wrote:
Duderino wrote:
Whenever they first went into Feedback (ala Live Dead). Completely out there, non-melodic chaos. It's space, they just called it a different name.

Hmmm...
I would say that's torture... and while some space is torture, not all torture is space...
All feedback is torture, but all torture is not space...

Its not all "feedback" they are twiddling knobs, making generally weird noises...

Koch, if you want to hear feedback, listen to the most torturous album on earth,
Lou Reed's Metal Machine Music. It is two sides of harsh feedback. Not sure what he was thinking on that one. Confused

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Kochman
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

colonialsrv wrote:
I Have to agree with dude on that one. There was nothing better than seeing the boys live and having them go into some really trippy jam, or watching a wild space while the crowd was going crazy, and feeding off of each others energy, and seeing all the glow sticks, and watching the twirlers.

That's space, I enjoyed space, especially when at the shows...

Feedback is the stuff they were doing in the 60s that would generally end up at AWBYGN
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Grateful_nirvanA



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Duderino wrote:
Whenever they first went into Feedback (ala Live Dead). Completely out there, non-melodic chaos. It's space, they just called it a different name.


I pretty much agree with the Dude here too. Space seemingly evolved from the introduction of Brent into the band and the "retirement" of feedback and Dark Star. When they didn't have a specific tune to get spacey in, they seemingly just decided to create a point in the show to do so without the pretense of having to get "out there." They just started "out there" and came back to us for the back half of set two.
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tizi



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Duderino wrote:
Duderino wrote:
Kochman wrote:
Duderino wrote:
Whenever they first went into Feedback (ala Live Dead). Completely out there, non-melodic chaos. It's space, they just called it a different name.

Hmmm...
I would say that's torture... and while some space is torture, not all torture is space...
All feedback is torture, but all torture is not space...

Its not all "feedback" they are twiddling knobs, making generally weird noises...

Koch, if you want to hear feedback, listen to the most torturous album on earth,
Lou Reed's Metal Machine Music. It is two sides of harsh feedback. Not sure what he was thinking on that one. Confused


Hey Dude have you heard that Lou Reed was planning to make some kind of full live Metal Machine Music show with related live album .... I think that the project was dropped but I have to check.

Anyway somewhere here we had some kind of Space listening suggestions ... but I can't find it! Can I steal this thread for a while? Gimme some hot HOT Spaces ... besides I was watching this short GD video "Backstage pass" which feature a couple of songs besides a solid Hard to handle, there was this very nice space vid on it ....

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spencer540



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IMO 83 was the best year for space, but also maybe the most simplistic. Not a lot of crazy out there sounds, just great Jerry noodling. I dont really like what Space became around eerrr... maybe 89 or 90.

For number one, its a tie between:
10/14/83 (I guess you could call this a spanish jam but with just Jerry and Bob.)
10/31/80

Other great ones:
10/12/83
10/31/83
8/5/74 (after the Truckin' jam)
12/31/83

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sundargu



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have always thought space was very intertwined with 'sound'. The sound that gnaws and grates yet awakens some deep vibrations/resonances in one's soul. I think the Dead were insistent on the space segment (despite all protests) because of that effect - the effect of sound. With a large audio system. I mean, you can crank up your music system all you want listening to space, but you will never get that effect of concert space high, right? Whatever, that's me. Maybe I should have put this in the 'I confess' section. but who knows....
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Kochman
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sundargu wrote:
I have always thought space was very intertwined with 'sound'. The sound that gnaws and grates yet awakens some deep vibrations/resonances in one's soul. I think the Dead were insistent on the space segment (despite all protests) because of that effect - the effect of sound. With a large audio system. I mean, you can crank up your music system all you want listening to space, but you will never get that effect of concert space high, right? Whatever, that's me. Maybe I should have put this in the 'I confess' section. but who knows....

Shit man, in 93+ those stadiums were shaking! It was awesome when it would get to shaking like that, making all sorts of already befuddled synapses fire...
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frell



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PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2011 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Duderino wrote:
Duderino wrote:
Kochman wrote:
Duderino wrote:
Whenever they first went into Feedback (ala Live Dead). Completely out there, non-melodic chaos. It's space, they just called it a different name.

Hmmm...
I would say that's torture... and while some space is torture, not all torture is space...
All feedback is torture, but all torture is not space...

Its not all "feedback" they are twiddling knobs, making generally weird noises...

Koch, if you want to hear feedback, listen to the most torturous album on earth,
Lou Reed's Metal Machine Music. It is two sides of harsh feedback. Not sure what he was thinking on that one. Confused


Dude nailed the beginning of space with Feedback and also a great reference to Metal Machine Music. Apparently Mr. Reed was on an opiate or two and decided it would be a great idea to record feedback. Even more interesting is how Grateful Dead Feedback could be looked at as avant garde music before it became trendy. I would also like to include Jimi Hendrix's Smashing Of The Amps which was basically feedback.

Here is an evolution to popular music and "space" or "feedback" as a piece of it's own.

Grateful Dead (Feedback late 60s)>Jimi Hendrix (Smashing Of The Amps late 60s)>Velvet Underground (Heroin late 60s ....side note is this the first time feedback was used in an actual song to this effect?)>Ned Lagin (later Phil and Ned..Seastones '70)>Grateful Dead (PITB/Dark Star 73-74 Shocked)>Phil and Ned (Seastones '74)>Lou Reed (Metal Machine Music 70s)>....im goin to skip a lot here .....>Dead modern space late 70s> Sonic Youth (80's)>Nirvana(Feedback 90s)

Interesting that some bands were actually inspired by feedback like Sonic Youth, Nirvana and White Zombie (listen the 80s White Zombie).

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fillmoreeast



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PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the first recorded feedback was The Beatles "I Feel Fine"(1965) at the very beginning of the song. It was an accident but John liked the effect and left it in.

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Duderino



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On the first or second Chicago album - Chicago Transit Authority (before they were lame pussies) Terry Kath has a track that is called Free Form Guitar that is several minutes of insane feedback. It's really cool.

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