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It's not TV; it's not even HBO: It's WWII

 
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Which was better?
Band of Brothers
83%
 83%  [ 5 ]
The Pacific
16%
 16%  [ 1 ]
Total Votes : 6

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Zephyr
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 12:25 am    Post subject: It's not TV; it's not even HBO: It's WWII Reply with quote

Don't vote if you haven't seen them both!

Both shows had amazing episodes and an amazing narrative arc, but which one was the better series?

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Darcangelo



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PostPosted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 6:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Pacific was excellent, but so was Band of Brothers. I voted Pacific simply because of the character Sledge, although I could argue Basilone was just as influential. Eugene Sledge's journey was so compelling, it just sucked you clean in and left you wanting more. My only knock on the Pacific were the actual shorter length's of the episodes. Unlike BoB, The Pacific's episodes were only about 45 minutes when you subtracted the opening/closing credits and the recap. I assume this was done so when they sell it to a network years from now, they will not be forced to cut and edit the episodes to fit nicely in an hour time slot. It's all about the money.

BoB was great and is the definitive measuring stick for mini-series IMO. It focused on a unit, so it was harder to become fixed on an individual character, so it was a bit less personal in my eyes. This is where The Pacific was completely different. I think the Pacific illustrated best the absolute horror of fighting the Japanese. Although Bastogne was incredibly horrific in Europe, I truly feel the battle the Marines faced island after island in the Pacific was beyond description in most cases. The series did a great job letting us viewers get a better idea of what these solders faced and the sacrifice they made for us.
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Kochman
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 8:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I definitely need to watch the Pacific...
Can't believe I haven't yet.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think BoB was much better. The Pacific was excellent as well(and it was about the Marines), but it was tougher to watch. Sometimes it was not enjoyable to watch at all. I also liked the characters better in BoB. I think the focus of The Pacific was more on the dark side of war. BoB focused on that too, but I think the focus of BoB was mostly on the camaraderie of Easy Company and what it took to make it through the entire campaign.

With all of that being said, Pacific is definately worth a watch.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I cast my vote for BoB, in part because there was a compelling narrative flow that really worked. The Pacific had a hopscotch aspect that was off-putting, as well as being grindingly brutal in several episodes. Capturing the true horrors of war was clearly the intent, and they achieved that at a shocking level, but that achievement came at the expense of other aspects of the story.

In BoB I liked the way they were able to capture the surrounding events and, to some degree, show a bit of the chain of command. The Pacific, for all of its hopscotching, had a somewhat blinkered focus on the Marines hitting the beaches.

Both shows had to make the best of a very narrow focus, but BoB delivered a more coherent result. Also, the nominal hero of BoB, Damien Lewis, delivered a fantastic performance which eclipsed anything from The Pacific, primarily because no individual in the Pacific was handed as juicy a role.

All that said, these two shows bookend each other nicely and both are worth watching.

And, finally, note that the Badass of the Week is
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Kochman
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Was The Pacific based on a book too?

My great uncle was in the same battalion as the BoB, not sure what company he was in. I keep meaning to ask him...
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Duderino



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PostPosted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Band of Brothers.
I liked the Pacific, but I liked the fact that BoB focused on the unit - it seemed more cohesive. I agree with Zeph about the hopscotch effect. It would have been better to focus on Sledge, or his unit.
Also I like how , once they got into a few episodes, there was a focus on a particular character or a few characters other than Winters. Each one seemed to have a particular theme underlying the battles. Also for some reason I have a particular bias toward the European theatre and I had read BoB and several other of Ambrose's books prior to watching..

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Darcangelo



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PostPosted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kochman wrote:
Was The Pacific based on a book too?

My great uncle was in the same battalion as the BoB, not sure what company he was in. I keep meaning to ask him...


They were based on a couple books. One about Basilone, one about Sledge, and one about Lucky (?)
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lucasmcain



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really liked both but the nod goes to Band of Brothers. There were really some unforgettable scenes in that series. The Battle of Bastogne, The scene where they discover the Concentration camp, and the ending when the 101st is hanging out in Austria, all left a big impression on me.

That being said The Pacific, was impressive and there were a few moments that hit hard ( i won't spoil it for those who haven't seen it). I just thought it was slow in some parts and the ending was a bit lof a let down for me.


Either way, the big thing to note is just how incrdibly bad-ass the men and women of that era were in both the war theaters and at home.
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tizi



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 2:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The father of my grandma died at Dachau 7 days before the liberation!
We got the notice just 10 years ago from the International red cross, the cause of death .... "heart attack" .... is this supposed to be funny??!!
Anyway ... good Antonio was pretty unlucky because he got caught having the same name of his cousin who was a partisan fighting the nazis!

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 7:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not saying it is true, but it could have been a heart attack brought on by living in hell while malnourished, etc...
Of course, it is more of a murderous heart attack than a natural heart attack... but a heart attack is certainly possible. Many died before it was their turn for the gas chambers... I think I would actually prefer to die somehow before I was sent to the gas.
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Duderino



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darcangelo wrote:
Kochman wrote:
Was The Pacific based on a book too?

My great uncle was in the same battalion as the BoB, not sure what company he was in. I keep meaning to ask him...


They were based on a couple books. One about Basilone, one about Sledge, and one about Lucky (?)

There is actually a book called The Pacific - based on those 3, plus a fighter pilot. Not sure if it is a compilation or what. Saw it at Barnes and Noble a few weeks ago.
Wikipedia - "Leckie's war memoirs, Helmet for My Pillow, along with Eugene B. Sledge's book With the Old Breed, formed the basis for the 2010 HBO series The Pacific, the successor to Band of Brothers. "
Leckie wrote several military history books. I know I have read a few but cannot remember which ones.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 10:17 am    Post subject: Re: It's not TV; it's not even HBO: It's WWII Reply with quote

Zephyr wrote:
Don't vote if you haven't seen them both!

Both shows had amazing episodes and an amazing narrative arc, but which one was the better series?

I have long loved Band of Brothers... my great uncle was in that unit, and I myself am an army paratrooper.
I just finished watching the Pacific.

In the end, I cannot decide which is better, and I award them both the same respect...
Amazing, important work from Hanks, Spielberg, and everyone else involved.
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lucasmcain



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ya'll know Dick Winters died recently?


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Dick Winters, the former World War II commander whose war story was told in the book and miniseries “Band of Brothers,” has died.

Dick Winters led a quiet life on his Fredericksburg farm and in his Hershey home until the book and miniseries “Band of Brothers” threw him into the international spotlight.

Since then, the former World War II commander of Easy Company had received hundreds of requests for interviews and appearances all over the world.

He stood at the podium with President George W. Bush in Hershey during the presidential campaign in 2007. He accepted the “Four Freedoms” award from Tom Brokaw on behalf of the Army. He was on familiar terms with Tom Hanks and Steven Spielberg, producers of the HBO mini-series, the most expensive television series ever produced.

Winters was always gracious about his new-found celebrity, but never really comfortable with it. He never claimed to be a hero and said that he had nothing to do with the national effort to get him the Medal of Honor, the nation’s highest military honor.

When people asked him if he was a hero, he liked to answer the way his World War II buddy, Mike Ranney, did.

“No,” Ranney said. “But I served in a company of heroes.” That became the tag line for the miniseries.

In an interview shortly before the miniseries debuted, Winters said the war wasn’t about individual heroics. The men were able to do what they did because they became closer than brothers when faced with overwhelming hardships.

They weren’t out to save the world. They hated the blood, carnage, exhaustion and filth of war. But they were horrified at the thought of letting down their buddies.

On D-Day, June 6, 1944, Winters and his troops from Easy Company, 506th regiment of the 101st Airborne Division, parachuted behind enemy lines to take on a German artillery nest on Utah Beach. Winters made himself a promise then that if he lived through the war, all he wanted was peace and quiet.

His company fought through the Battle of the Bulge, the liberation of a death camp at Dachau and to Hitler’s Eagle’s Nest at Berchtesgaden.

The war described in “Band of Brothers” is ugly, but the young men developed character under fire, Winters said. He was glad the miniseries showed war realistically, not either glorified or demonized as in so many movies.

He wanted people to understand that success in war depends not on heroics but on bonding, character, getting the job done and “hanging tough,” his lifelong motto. In combat, he wrote 50 years after the war, “your reward for a good job done is that you get the next tough mission.”

When the war ended, Winters kept his promise to himself. He married Ethel, bought a bucolic farm in Fredericksburg, raised two children and worked in the agricultural feed business. He didn’t talk about the war until the late historian Stephen Ambrose wanted to put Easy Company’s exploits on paper.

Following the miniseries, Winters turned down most requests for interviews because he said he didn’t want to appear like he was bragging.

But he did feel the story of Easy Company was an important one, especially for young people. He was more likely to accept invitations by local school groups and spent time with students at Cedar Crest High School, among others. A talk he gave at Palmyra Middle School drew hundreds of spectators.

People who knew Winters during and after the war said he is exactly what he appears to be. He could lead without ever raising his voice or swearing. His friend Bob Hoffman, a Lebanon architect, said Winters’ eyes could “burn a hole right through you.”

The men who served under him and people who only met him later in life call him a hero, no matter what he says.

According to the book, one wounded member of Easy Company wrote Winters from a hospital bed in 1945, “I would follow you into hell.”

He received a standing ovation from 500 veterans when he spoke at the dedication of the Army’s Military History Institute in Middlesex Township in September.

When President Bush was in Hershey in April, he called Winters “a fine example ... for those brave souls who now wear our nation’s uniform.”

Ambrose, the author of “Band of Brothers,” said in a 2001 BBC interview that he hopes young people say. “I want to be like Dick Winters.”

“Not necessarily as soldiers, but as that kind of leader, that kind of man, with basic honesty and virtue and an understanding of the difference between right and wrong,” Ambrose said.
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Zephyr
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lucasmcain wrote:
In combat, he wrote 50 years after the war, “your reward for a good job done is that you get the next tough mission.”

When the war ended, Winters kept his promise to himself. He married Ethel.


I like the inadvertent humor....

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 8:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hahahaa, good call Z.

So, one thing that struck me as I watched the Pacific... other than the fact that I felt myself losing my grip on reality as well (specifically in the Peleliu episodes), was the comparison of paratroopers and amphibious assaults.

I mean, I was a paratrooper, and you ride in the plane, not knowing what the hell the situation is going to be on the ground when you drop...

Amphib assaults? You can see the beach you are going to storm for hours... realizing that it is probably protected by suicidal Japanese soldiers...

That being said, both are then isolated, but paratroopers more so, as we were dropped 400 miles from the closest friendly unit, with the entire Iraqi Army in between.

The Guadalcanal battle, where the US Navy had to retreat, thereby leaving the marines alone on the island, would have been pretty hairy too...
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He died in Palmyra, PA?...weird, that's where i'm working at the moment Shocked A typical small cityin PA, beautiful.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 9:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gopher wrote:
He died in Palmyra, PA?...weird, that's where i'm working at the moment Shocked A typical small cityin PA, beautiful.

They always called him a Quaker because he was from PA, very religious, and wouldn't drink...
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have yet to watch either of these series, but I will get to them, it doesn't help that my wife doesn't like war movies/documentaries/tv shows.
I love reading up on Medal of Honor stories, since they are tales of exceptional heroism, they are often very interesting and gripping. I was just reading about
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for leading one of the final bayonet charges in the history of modern warfare against a Communist Chinese position.
The thing about World War II if you are an adventurous sort is that you can't help but be a little jealous of these Greatest Generation types who got to go kick some serious ass against an enemy that totally deserved annihilation. Very Happy
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