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Finding the Best Source

 
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Kochman
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Joined: 23 Jun 2008
Posts: 10252
Location: Davy Jones' Locker

PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2008 9:20 am    Post subject: Finding the Best Source Reply with quote

.
.
.
The Grateful Dead Source Guide

Situation:
Many shows have many sources, and there is no resource available to reference which sources are actually of the best quality. Sometimes an AUD is better than the SBD. Sometimes a Matrix is better than both, sometimes a Matrix is worse. Sometimes a C. Miller source is the best, sometimes a Clugston, sometimes a GEMS. Etc.
I'm drowning here!
A man named the Zephyr C. Montego is at it again and has come up with a project aimed to remove the uncertainty. Here is a photo file of Zephyr (this was actually taken when he conceived the original Speeding Arrow site)...

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Task:
On a volunteer only basis (that means you!), sort through the many sources and discover which are best, which are worst, and which are in between and why. Feel free to PM the administrator (that's me) to volunteer for a tour or two (at a time).

Conditions:
Access to all shows currently circulating at

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(feel free to use your own lossless if you prefer, but cover ONLY those at www.archive.org so that the common man can easily get a hold of said source), this website, and yet to be created forums on this website (where the results will be posted). You will be the moderator of your own tour's forum room.

Standards:
In a never-ending time period, based on your own pace, get to all the tours the Dead have ever done, and place your findings into a "zephyr-plate" (template) for each that is posted, with an example,

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. The goal is to have a resource where any head can look to find out which source is best for any show the Grateful Dead has created. At no point are you reviewing the performance of the show, only the sound quality of the source. Show reviews by any and all members are encouraged and should be added to the appropriate area in Terrapin Station, as before, as unique threads (please mention your source in your reviews from now on). If you want to point out additional sources for shows (that are, hopefully, even better than the ones cited) post to the moderator's sticky thread.


Progress report:
The initial example will be up shortly, and you will all have your "zephyr-plate". Please keep to this format so everyone can understand your contributions as easily as the next guys.

Arr!

A note to moderators:
As this site is born in free speech, your moderator privileges are not to be used to censor comments, etc. Any such action will result in a loss of this status. The status is applied simply to give you the ability to maintain your tour as best as possible, in a direct manner. Moderator status is temporary anyhow, as once the tours take shape, the need diminishes.

P.S. Members only!


Last edited by Kochman on Mon Feb 23, 2009 8:32 am; edited 8 times in total
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Kochman
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Joined: 23 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2008 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As we are now in full swing, the above posting has been updated recently to reflect the goals.

So, take you time, do it right.

As a tour reviewer, when you are ready for your Forum Room to be put up to post your findings, post a reply here to let me know, and it will be so.

Enjoy!
Cheers
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Kochman
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Joined: 23 Jun 2008
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Location: Davy Jones' Locker

PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, so I posted rooms for the tours, and the volunteering party... if I missed you... let me know. I have CRS Syndrome.
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outreach



Joined: 05 Aug 2008
Posts: 69

PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Me too. It gets me in trouble at work sometimes. I'm drowning here!
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liamfinnegan



Joined: 20 Sep 2008
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 12:01 pm    Post subject: I will volunteer for all of 1982 Reply with quote

ok?
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Kochman
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You want ALL of 82? Is that correct?

And, welcome to the site, man, and thanks for volunteering for this project.
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Kochman
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Joined: 23 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, I know I haven't exactly been plowing through mine with a full head of steam, but... are you guys, "moderators", still interested in doing your sections?

Let me know please.
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Gopher



Joined: 12 Jul 2008
Posts: 1754
Location: NEPA

PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I Havn't started it yet, but still want to do it, but I don't know what route to take.....
I was thinking of just listening to the shows in chronological order.....take notes, repeat until all sources have been heard....any ideas?

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boxorain



Joined: 08 Jul 2008
Posts: 672
Location: The depths of Hells Canyon

PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kochman wrote:
So, I know I haven't exactly been plowing through mine with a full head of steam, but... are you guys, "moderators", still interested in doing your sections?

Let me know please.


Still working on it, slowly. Shocked

What the hell was I thinking picking '87? Should have picked '66; there are a whole bunch fewer sources back then.
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Zephyr
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Joined: 07 Jul 2008
Posts: 917
Location: Under the sea, dressed in green.

PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gopher wrote:
I Haven't started it yet, but still want to do it, but I don't know what route to take.....
I was thinking of just listening to the shows in chronological order.....take notes, repeat until all sources have been heard....any ideas?


My process was to download all the shows and then do comparison listening to various strategic tracks (you decide which ones are "strategic" Very Happy ). I sometimes found that there were big differences in a recording between the first set and the second set, etc.). If you don't know how to download the SBD vbr.mp3 files, PM me and I'll hook you up.

I would also check show lengths to see if a show was complete. A LOT of shows are missing chunks of drums and/or space, and if there's a toss-up in deciding the best source, this can tilt the balance.

Another tip: read the text files. They usually reveal patches or cuts, and then you can listen to them to see if they're well done or not.

It can be slow going, but if you're reviewing a show that you have a real connection to, it is really worthwhile.

Z

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Dead to the Core.
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Kochman
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Joined: 23 Jun 2008
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Location: Davy Jones' Locker

PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As he says, it can be slow... but, do it right the first time, as slow as it needs to go, because once complete, it is done. Unless they release several new sources at once for a show, I only see the very occasional and in many cases unnecessary updates.


Box... yeah... the 80s boy... tons of sources from tons of heads!
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chingsinkly



Joined: 08 Jul 2008
Posts: 584
Location: mass

PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm close to making my first post for fall 79. I've been very busy and am taking it slow...gotta do it right the first time.
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Kochman
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Joined: 23 Jun 2008
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Location: Davy Jones' Locker

PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No problem, just looking for signs of life... certain folks are displaying none, and I may be removing their tour(s) if they don't pipe up. By signs of life I mean, haven't posted here at all in some time...
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chinarider79



Joined: 11 Jul 2008
Posts: 547
Location: East Falls

PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm still interested in my section, although it might be awhile before anyone sees any activity within it. I've been purposely avoiding forums to focus more on studies. I'm trying to check in every once in awhile, though. I haven't forgotten the project.... Please be patient with me I'm drowning here!
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Kochman
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Joined: 23 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

chinarider79 wrote:
I'm still interested in my section, although it might be awhile before anyone sees any activity within it. I've been purposely avoiding forums to focus more on studies. I'm trying to check in every once in awhile, though. I haven't forgotten the project.... Please be patient with me I'm drowning here!


cool
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a.j.craig



Joined: 07 Jul 2008
Posts: 359
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 2:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Still up for july 76 as present circs. permit.

Dave

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smgarcia



Joined: 25 Oct 2008
Posts: 118
Location: Chicago, IL

PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 3:21 pm    Post subject: OK I'm IN Reply with quote

and I'll do Spring 1977. :-) starting with 2-26-77 - Swing and ending with 1977-05-28 - Hartford. I've got most of these, if not all of them, on my computer. :-)
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Kochman
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 4:50 pm    Post subject: Re: OK I'm IN Reply with quote

smgarcia wrote:
and I'll do Spring 1977. :-) starting with 2-26-77 - Swing and ending with 1977-05-28 - Hartford. I've got most of these, if not all of them, on my computer. :-)


Excellent, glad to see you here, and glad to get the help!
I will put you in for those dates. Have fun with 5/8/77, probably like 100 sources for that one!
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Kochman
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok, if you see a peroid below that you want to do, and the "moderator" hasn't made any entry at this point, let me know and you can have it.
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Kochman
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is not an attempt to admonish anyone... just a change of policy.
If you want to do an era for the review, just start. When you have your first reviews ready, let me know, and I will create a room for you. This will prevent people from having called "dibs" on an era, and then not actually working on it, while meanwhile someone who may have wanted to do it sees that it is taken, so they don't do the work they might have done.
Shocked
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dw6



Joined: 26 Jan 2009
Posts: 13
Location: Philadelphia

PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

a rotating group of fans did a lot of work a few years back on a top 100 off the beaten path with the best sound quality from the archive. I have thousands of posts saved that I have just started reviewing for the website. Lots of sound quality discussion covering all time periods. The website with our results is
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I'm definitely in on this project, sounds like the best possible way to spend my time.
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Kochman
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dw6 wrote:
a rotating group of fans did a lot of work a few years back on a top 100 off the beaten path with the best sound quality from the archive. I have thousands of posts saved that I have just started reviewing for the website. Lots of sound quality discussion covering all time periods. The website with our results is
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I'm definitely in on this project, sounds like the best possible way to spend my time.

Welcome aboard fellow head! Glad to see you.

I remember seeing that website before, cool stuff. It is pretty well done!
Definitely a key resource for studious heads.
If you have a period you want to cover, just shoot me a PM with your first submission, and I will create a room for your time period. You can then post your findings there, as the other have done.

I just saw something like 10 sources for Winterland 75 for example! What is a head supposed to do?!

This is great for all, and your efforts will certainly be appreciated!
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dw6



Joined: 26 Jan 2009
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Location: Philadelphia

PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We had a lot of fun doing this type of project. We did ours in response to an interview with Lemieux, in which he implied that the days of lossless downloading at the archive were numbered. So our project was to highlight great sounding, and great played shows from each time period so people could grab them before it was too late.
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Kochman
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dw6 wrote:
We had a lot of fun doing this type of project. We did ours in response to an interview with Lemieux, in which he implied that the days of lossless downloading at the archive were numbered. So our project was to highlight great sounding, and great played shows from each time period so people could grab them before it was too late.


I was not aware that he dropped that hint. That was nice of him.
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dw6



Joined: 26 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So say you come across a show with a stellar AUD, can not be overlooked. Then you check the SBD and find that it too is of stellar quality. Considering the purpose of this project I'm wondering if it makes sense to allow for recommending both when applicable. My thinking being, there are many who would take the AUD rec since it is there, but would have preferred a high quality SBD, and visa versa. Just wondering if this was discussed, and if so, what greater minds concluded.
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Kochman
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dw6 wrote:
So say you come across a show with a stellar AUD, can not be overlooked. Then you check the SBD and find that it too is of stellar quality. Considering the purpose of this project I'm wondering if it makes sense to allow for recommending both when applicable. My thinking being, there are many who would take the AUD rec since it is there, but would have preferred a high quality SBD, and visa versa. Just wondering if this was discussed, and if so, what greater minds concluded.


In such a case, as they certainly exist... it would come to the nuts and bolts... tape flips, crowd interference... anything...

And then, the last thing you could do... when both are too close to call, just write that, and tell the listener to get the SBD if he/she/it prefers SBDs in general, or the AUD in the other case.
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dw6



Joined: 26 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just saw the template in the posting your findings thread. Would you prefer it if we submitted our findings using that?
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Duderino



Joined: 09 Jul 2008
Posts: 3031
Location: Baltimore

PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FYI - I am agetting may act together to do the Summer 85 tour. compiling rough notes, etc..I'm on 6/24/85 right now. Damn this was a great tour

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Kochman
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dw6 wrote:
I just saw the template in the posting your findings thread. Would you prefer it if we submitted our findings using that?


Something similar, so we don't have to decipher all sorts of different formats. Minor adjustments are fine, such as inverting the location and the venue, or whatever, but the major framework should be maintained, just for ease of use/reference...
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Kochman
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let me clarify.
You do not have to listen to every minute of every source.

Rather, head to head comparisons, and checking the text files and reviews for comments...

Example...
Listen to the first 30 seconds of song 4 of source 1...
Listen to the first 30 seconds of song 4 of source 2...
Listen to the first 30 seconds of song 4 of source 3...

Repeat through a couple other songs throughout the show... in all segments...

Add to that notes about patches, cuts, etc...

Then you have a damn good idea.

The sampling here and there is better than listening all the way through, because you can really compare sources in this manner.
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Kochman
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FYI, I put all these in this one convenient place.
Really wish more people would participate in this project...
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Kochman
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Joined: 23 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2009 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I should assign homework in the form of a 3 day run source review for every bashing in the "how and why kochman sucks thread", we need to jump start this bad boy. Its a great, worthwile project...
ANY TAKERS?
As much GD as we all listen to... it shouldn't really be a problem.
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