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The Great Debate of November '85

 
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The Great Debate of November '85
11/20/85 is my favorite of the two
50%
 50%  [ 2 ]
11/21/85 is my favorite of the two
50%
 50%  [ 2 ]
Total Votes : 4

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Kochman
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Joined: 23 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 1:49 pm    Post subject: The Great Debate of November '85 Reply with quote

Some of you may recall this.
I am bringing it back up, as I watch the video of 11/21/85 today.

Swami prefers 11/20, I prefer 11/21... both are great shows.

Which do you prefer? Why?
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Duderino



Joined: 09 Jul 2008
Posts: 3031
Location: Baltimore

PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

11/21/85
close call as each has its strengths and weaknesses.
Both first sets are rock solid - I like the song selection of 11/20 more, but 11/21 opener of Big Boy Pete & Dire is awesome. I call it a draw

11/20 is probably a better executed show but IMO its fatal flaw is Dont Need Love. I hate that insipid song. Also, the 2nd set is a little on the short side.
11/21 has a far more adventurous setlist, but also a little sloppy. Crazy Fingers is a disaster and Midnight Hour is rocky. But still, some great playing.
Encore - no contest - Walkin the Dog!

This is sort of like comparing 11/1 and 11/2/85

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Kochman
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to go back and listen to 11/20 again (heck, there is a good chance I would actually prefer it now, seeing as how my preferences change a lot), but here are my thoughts on 11/21.

11-21-85 Henry J. Kaiser Convention Center, Oakland, Ca. (Thu)
1: Big Boy Pete, Dire Wolf, Rooster, B. E. Women, Me & My Uncle> Mexicali, Ramble On> L. L. Rain> Might As Well
2: Shakedown> Crazy Fingers> Playin> She Belongs To Me> Drumz> Other One> Wharf Rat> Playin> Gimme Some Lovin> Midnight Hour E: Walking The Dog
final/last "Big Boy Pete": 09-20-70 [1009] - final "She Belongs To Me" - final "Walking The Dog"

This show contains the final version of 3 songs, pretty interesting... especially since both Walkin' the Dog and She Belongs To Me were somewhat regularly played at this point in GD history.

The Big Boy Pete is played well. Whenever they would bring a song back for one appearance like this, I always wonder why. What was the occasion? It is surprisingly well done really, indicating they most likely rehearsed it...
Dire Wolf is a nice choice for the next song. As always, short yet sweet.
LRR fills the blue slot nicely, and Brent has a monster solo here.
BEW was awesome. Garcia is in top form, with just the right twang in his guitar and nimble fingers. I loved this BEW, and its in my top versions list (OK, I don't really have a list for this song, but if I did, this would surely be on it!). Really gets the energy levels up there!
MAMU>Mexicali maintains the energy, excellent!
Ramble On Rose>LL Rain may please some folks, but to me, its the chink in the armor of the otherwise awesome 1st set.
Might As Well is always a fun way to close a set.

You hear them tuning up for Shakedown St with the lights still off in the arena, and you know its going to come out strong. A powerful intro is key to me in this song, sets the stage for the rest of the playing... and this one packs a punch. There is a couple of points of sloppiness, which would be standard for the 2nd set, but the playing is large and in charge. Nothing just exactly perfect here except the pleasing feeling. The jamming is awesome, and bodes well for the rest of the set.
Crazy Fingers represents the most flawed segment (of many shows). Goof this up as often as they would, Garcia would always try it again. Anyhow, he blows a good portion of the lyrics, and there is a spot of musical sloppiness here and there, but its just a filler to get us to...
PITB! This version of PITB is the one that lead me to my conclusion that 1985 was Bobby's best year. His fills are awesome throughout. This PITB is hugely exploratory, trippy as hell, and beautiful, while maintaining a nice energy. To me, this is a textbook version, if there is such a thing, a model version perhaps. Bobby does spiral sounds, whale calls, his whole bag of tricks basically. The rest of the band is on too, of course, a real team effort, and yes, Jerome is awesome thoughout. Awesome version!
Garcia, fresh off the success of his playing in the band, goes for the final version of She Belongs To Me, put squarely in the power slot! Another fine version, and I still can't figure out why they ditched this great Dylan tune. I wonder if it had to do with personal/romantic life issues? Was this a period of... flux... for Jerome?

More to follow.
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Kochman
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Listening to 11/22 right now, which is awesome. The Estimated is out of control! Looking forward with baited breath for the Eyes to follow...
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finster



Joined: 21 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not familiar with either of these shows.
Haven't dipped into '85 for awhile, so I will happily give these to a listen tomorrow and see what they are all about. Unheard, 11/20 has a slight edge based on the set list, but we shall see (hear) what we shall see!!!
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Kochman
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

finster wrote:
Not familiar with either of these shows.
Haven't dipped into '85 for awhile, so I will happily give these to a listen tomorrow and see what they are all about. Unheard, 11/20 has a slight edge based on the set list, but we shall see (hear) what we shall see!!!

Did you get a chance to hear these finster?
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swamiGD80s
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Joined: 27 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This great debate apparently ended in a 2-2 stalemate, and I know that Koch and I fervently maintain our original position. Laughing Cool

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Kochman
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PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 8:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote


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